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Post by DrEdwardx on Feb 5, 2005 9:16:53 GMT -5
I must disagree with you my freind on 3 points .
Psychiatric analysis CAN AND HAS detected cases of genuine demon possession , on quite a few occassions and i do believe there was a very famous german case , although the name escapes me at the moment( if someone can enlighten me i would be more than grateful).
Real demonic activity is VERY PREDICTABLE , as the true demonic entity always seeks to decieve and confuse . I takes extreme clarity of mind to detect such activity and people that have such clarity of thought make the best exorcists.Having been present at an exorcism in the early 80's , and having conducted an investigation into a prescence bought into being by the abuse of a ouija board ( in the ladywell area of south london) , i can categorically state that the demon is predictable merely by the amount of confusion it spreads, thereby enabling us to combat the entity .
KEEP YOUR FAITH IN GOD , BUT KEEP YOUR POWDER DRY
Knowing the racial origin of a vampire could help to stem the infection (as i have said before) at the source of the contagion before the foulness spreads to other areas or indeed countries. Far from being a hinderance to a true vampire investigator , D.N.A analysis could be one of the most helpful tools a vampire hunter has to hand , even to the extremes of allowing us to identify the corpse that the undead spirit is inhabiting at the time.
We must utilise all avalable forms of weapon to combat vampires , demons or other forms of undead , or indeed unborn ones that often infest the plane in which we live , and i for one believe that w now have more weapons , spiritual and scientific to enable us to combat such evil , and inform each other of the most effective ways of doing so ( such as using the web).
i welcome your comments
sweet dreams
Dr Edward X
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Post by Memphremagog on Feb 5, 2005 14:09:47 GMT -5
I'm sorry Dr. Edward X but I must say that the dicussion here has lapsed into the patently absurd!!!
If you will remember the third (or maybe it was the fouth) year of BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER when there appeared a top secret U.S. Government organization loosly related to the F.B.I., N.S.A., or CIA where they had captured "subterranian hostiles" and were performing all kinds of test on captured and detained vampires, well that entire story line was silly to the nth degree and so is this idea of DNA profililng vampires!
First of all I would like to see you capture and detain a vampire like the police nab and hand-cuff suspected law-breakers. Good luck! What are you going to do once you catch the infernal gaze of a vampire! Remember Bishop Manchester emphasized that it is very important to avoid eye-contact with the vampire because he may gain control of YOU if you don't!
I can just imagine a group of blokes sitting around waiting to nab the Kirklees Vampire with surgical instruments and syringes at the ready to draw some vampiric blood samples! Why the 800 year old gal would scare the daylights (and something else I can not mention here due to the rules against vulgarity, but you know what I mean) out of them and leave them looking like the fools that they are!
These creatures do not survive for centuries on end by being stupid! They have the intellectual capacity given to them by God when they were created, it is called infused knowledge and all demons have it. The problem is that when one possesses a deceased body they are more confined to the three-dimensional realm than when they are pure spirits. But that makes them all the more dangerous to us and anyone seeking to end their existence!
Once again I wish to reiterate, even at the risk and likelihood of sounding redundant, that we are dealing with supernatural powers here, not a mere mortal criminal! If you seek to do as you suggest, and if you succeed somehow in actually detaining a nosferatu, then you are in danger of becoming possessed by that same possessing demon that is the demonic half of the vampire! Natural laws of science DO NOT APPLY TO THE REALM OF THE SUPERNATURAL AND PRETERNATURAL! It would be like dynamite in the hands of infants! You would not know what to do! Yes faith in God is an absolute necessity in confronting the undead, and let your faith in God guide you through the experience, not faith in science because science is inherently flawed by our own lack of knowledge (ignorance of reality).
Anyway believe as you will, but I pity the poor wretch who would actually attempt to capture and detain for forensic analysis a genuine original undead vampire!!!
_______________________
Memphremagog.
In te Domine speravi.
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Post by DrEdwardx on Feb 5, 2005 15:18:37 GMT -5
I think that bringing buffy the vampire slayer into this conversation has proved that we must agree to disagree on this topic .
I refer the honourable gentle to the remarks i made earlier ;D .
I have experienced ( as i have stated in a previous post ) the supernatural at first hand , which is why , although having a scientific background , firmly believe in what we loosely term as the supernatural.
during the exorcism in 1985 , i witnessed 2 small objects fly against a wall and break , as well as what can only be described as an evil prescence in the room.
To top this all the clincher for me was watching the victim levitate over 4 inches off of the ground and travel to the other side of a room, as you might agree this was scary stuff. I did manage to use my clinical detatchment to observe these proceedings and only at one point was i concerned for other people in the room,this was at the point the entity left the young man and caused what can only be described as a stinking area of chaos in the room. After the blessing the room felt clean and harmless unlike previously.
make no doubt I BELIEVE IN THE SUPERNATURAL , and these experiences led me to a lifelong study of the supernatural.
I am also of the opinion that the device known as a ouija board should be withdrawn from sale ( even though this will not stop people making makeshift ones).
The horror that i saw unleashed in a small house in ladywell which was caused by ouija board abuse, was only brought to an end by an exorcism and blessing carried out by myself and a good freind - who i will refer to as the reverend X .The unquiet and quite aggreived entity was exorcised only after much trouble.During this exorcism i did experience what can only be described as true horror and a fear for my immortal soul and indeed my life, and to this day will never forget the face of the tormented soul involved which indeed did manifest itself in the prescence of 4 reliable witnesses.If i had my way it would be a criminal offence to use a ouija board after seeing the damage they can cause at first hand.
as i said we must agree to disagree on this one.
and i have never ever seen an episode of buffy the vampire slayer -lol ;D.
sorry to have a ramble but this i a subject i feel very strongly about , and if anyone ever asks for my help in these and scientific matters i have always been on hand to help , and not hinder.
sweet dreams cryptkickers ;D
love Dr Edward x
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Post by Memphremagog on Feb 5, 2005 15:46:03 GMT -5
Dear Dr.EdwardX:
I likewise have experienced the sneering and snide presence of the evil one in a situation far too personal to display here on a public website. But suffice it to know, then, that we have both enountered a demonic entity and have lived to tell about it- DEO GRATIAS! I do not doubt and I am not questioning the validity of your experiences, I am glad you were a witness to the driving out of such a monstrosity. By the way if you want to discuss in further detail about our mutual experiences with the preternatural, my profile is available over on the Cross and the Stake website (although I have had difficulty sending messages to it since November).
However it seems dangerous at best to assume that you can somehow get a DNA sample from a vampire. For one thing you would only get a DNA sample of the human being infected. This would have no bearing on the occupying demonic entity! That is my only point here! I think I have somehow made myself obscure when I did not mean to. As to whether I am right or wrong, well let's hope that my correctness or error on this matter never has to be validated! If you want to scientifically evaluate a nosferatu more power to you because you are sure as hell going to need it.
Agreeing to disagree on certain matters is a diplomatic way of handling the impossible. It recognizes the validity of each others stance and leaves open the door for more "dialogue" on the subject matter which is what this site is all about.
But as the the identity of the Highgate Vampire is concerned it can only be ASSUMED that he was Tamas Orszag, and that assumption may be completely wrong. It does however seem the most identity since no other really viable candidates exist (that I know of).
PAX.
_____________________
Memphremagog.
In te Domine speravi.
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Post by DrEdwardx on Feb 6, 2005 8:56:18 GMT -5
Hello again.
We must never assume anything , and remain open minded to all possibilities .
as the old management rhyme goes
never assume anything as it makes an ASS out of U and ME .
or something like that .
we as investigators should not remain blinkered in our outlook and take into account all available evidence , and not rely on assumed evidence.
as i have said before , the fact that an individual was an eastern european aristocrat does not make him a vampire , nor does eastern european descent make you more likely to become a vampire( that is just part of the hollywood legacy we have inherited).
one of the most celebrated vampire stories has been shown to be just that ( i am referring to the croglin grange incident) , and that tale has been oft quoted as being a true story.
we have to deal with FACT , plain and simple .
even in supernatural investigation , we should always take the facts into consideration , and never , ever paste our own agendas onto any investigation , rendering it invalid.
I personally believe that a vampire could be contained safely using a faraday cage assembly , using extremely high voltage , and also rendered incapable of harm , by using a phased series of 12 tesla coils , which would dissuade the entity from trying to cause harm to anybody.
I believe that a scientific study of a captive vampire is possible and not merely confined to the pages of science fiction or even buffy the vampire slayer ( which i have not had the pleasure of watching).
FIRM SCIENTIFIC AND RELIGIOUS PRINCIPLES COULD AND SHOULD BE APPLIED TO ANY RESEARCH.
i personally would be prepared to fund the creation of the cage and help to construct the phased tesla containment unit ( i have seen a working prototype).
I believe that NOTHING is impossible if we only put our minds to work and are prepared to experiment and discover new realms.
I would like some information on the nunhead cemetary vampire scare in sth london in the late 70's , as there was a discovery of 4 staked corpses..
i wonder if anyone could help with any information, as there have been recent local reports of a prescence in the vicinity.
your help would be appreciated.
sweet dreams.
Dr Edward X
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Post by Memphremagog on Feb 6, 2005 15:21:25 GMT -5
Dear Dr. Edward X, et alia:
It seems like we two are destined to beat this dead horse until it resuscitates (maybe as a vampire)!!!!!!!!
Once again more power to you good buddy. I hope for your sake you can achieve the apprehension of a real undead and will be able to experiment as you wish. Earlier I mentioned the silly TV show BUFFY, then you rather somewhat chided me for doing so. Eddy, the reason I mentioned BUFFY was due to the patently silly and absurd notions contained therein. I agree it is stupid and silly, that's my point!!! As a fantasy its OK and that is all. But if you have ever read or studied vampirism as I myself have since the mid 1960s from a point of view that they really exist, then you would see just how goofy some of your suggestions sound! Now I don't want to diminish your vampiric investigations myself because I personally don't know you and have never discussed your experiences, and I admit they may be considerable and valid! But mine are no less valid as I have studied Montague Summers, Augustin Calmet, Dr. Herbert Mayo, and of course Bishop Manchester, for several years. I wish I had the opportunity to read some of the information held by the VRS, and they have even helped me out a few times themselves, to which I am very grateful.
I hate to end a post with something like "I told you so", but IF you are successful in apprehending a vampire, then don't come crying to little ol' Memphremagog if you find you've got a tiger by the tail and he is about to rip open your jugular! In fact I would much rather have a tiger by the tail than a vampire in some cage or other! But once again I bid you have the best of luck in vampire hunting, you'll need it if you catch one!
_____________________
Memphremagog.
In te Domine speravi.
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Post by DrEdwardx on Feb 7, 2005 6:24:43 GMT -5
I am quite astounded that you think that my theories on vampire containment are GOOFY.
The theory of voltaic containment of spirit entities was , and has been indeed practiced since victorian times up until the present day .
It is a well known FACT that de-ionising the area in which a spirit entity is infecting is just as effective as an exorcism and should be used in conjunction with an exorcism to be 100% effective.
EHT discharges from a series of phased tesla coils would FRY any organic component thus rendering any physical threat null and void,( it is a proven fact and is currently used in a more refined form as a more high tech version of an electric fence).
any residual spiritual energy , could either be contained in a faraday cage assembly , completely de-ionised , or exorcised by a resident exorcist or religious minister.
VAMPIRES DO EXIST , and not in the namby pamby forms we are shown on tv and trashy horror films.
i am frankly quite astounded that anyone who propounds to be a serious investigator could, and would indeed call a qualified scientist GOOFY ( Bsc,Phd,Mphil,Cfa) , and as i am also a fully ordained minister of the cloth ( Lutheran - DoD , Phd) i also realise that faith is the strongest weapon available in any arsenal , and even within the confines of my faith , i keep an open mind .
as i have previous stated , and i think most serious paranormal investigators would agree.
WE MUST USE ALL AVAILABLE WEAPONS AT OUR DISPOSAL, be it something as basic and powerful as a crucifix, a shotgun loaded with silver sixpences( very effective on all forms of nasties) or indeed a de-ionising ( or de gaussing ) cannon - which at this moment in time are relatively inexpensive and portable.
BLIND FAITH ALONE IS NOT ENOUGH TO FIGHT WHAT WE LOOSELY CALL A VAMPIRE ( there are a great many forms , yet still basically the same creature)
If we use technology such as mobile phones , walkie talkies , motor vehicles,video cameras, tape recorders, infra red monitoring equipment , Near field electrical detectors and computers WE ARE USING DEVICES CREATED BY SCIENTIFIC EXPERIMENTATION , i think you will agree that without these items created by scientists and other inquisitive minds we would have a very hard time investigating the paranormal.
I do not call these notions GOOFY , and find this description of anyones personal beleifs or views highly offensive in the extreme.
i think personally that vampires have us to fear and not for us to fear the undead.
FEAR AND DISBELIEF IS THE VAMPIRES GREATEST WEAPON, do not be decieved.
If anyone does have any information on the current vampire scare at nunhead cemetary , please contact me with more details , i will be commencing investigation of the area this coming weekend.
sweet dreams
Dr Edward X
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Post by Memphremagog on Feb 7, 2005 19:21:23 GMT -5
OK Edward, go ahead and do as you suggest. Become the most famous vampire opponent since Bishop Manchester. Catch one and study it. As I said before more power to you! Let's cease and desist on this aimless banterign back and forth. Prove me wrong and congratulations to you in advance if you do. Tesla coils and whatever else seem impressive, but can they assist in nabbing a vampre? Maybe so, go ahead, and I'm sure the rest of us at this forum and the Cross and the Stake will be awaitng your results with baited breath.
PAX.
______________
Memphremagog.
In te Domine speravi.
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Post by DrEdwardx on Feb 8, 2005 8:08:14 GMT -5
hello again.
The object of any message board is to stimulate , interesting reasoned discussion of all topics concerned . i for one do not consider this mode of discussion back and forth banter , neither do i have any wish to become a vampire hunter , the VAMPIRE RESEARCH SOCIETY do a mighty fine job of that already , and more power to BISHOP SEAN MANCHESTERS elbow.I am merely a paranormal investigator with a scientific/religious back ground , that has found that the most effective way to study /fight the paranormal is by utilising both disciplines sympathetically.
Anyway , to get back on topic of the identity of the highgate vampire , from which i do believe we have strayed from a little.
The surname ORSZAG is quite a common name in eastern europe especially poland and the balkans , as is the name OSTROG in the former U.S.S.R , almost as common as SMITH is in england or JONES in wales.
Maybe the name TAMAS ORSZAG was a false name , much the same as a couple booking in to a hotel for a dirty weekend under the name of SMITH , for example.
maybe we are all barking up the wrong tree, and should be looking elsewhere , such as any recorded crimes in the area that might enable us to track any vampiric activity at the time to a set area.
as the old saying goes.
the dead travel swiftly.
sweet dreams
Dr Edward X
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Post by Memphremagog on Feb 8, 2005 19:36:28 GMT -5
Dr. Edward X et alia:
I may have been crass and insensitive in my perhaps too rash criticism of your ideas. I must admit that I have no experience in forensics and the like. I apologize for my overharsh manner of critiquing your proposed methods. You may have many good points and maybe it is possible to apprehend a vampire in the manner and method you suggest. My main point is that these creatures are supernatural, that is above nature, and not necessarily subject to scientific laws as we understand them. That is my only point and it was based on the supernatural aspect of vampires and other revenants that I see the difficulty perhaps inherent in your proposal.
So then, Edward, please accept my apology on my overly harsh criticism. In America we have a saying and it goes something like this "I'm from Missouri, show me!!" (Missouri being the "show me" state). I will believe your methods effective once a vampire is captured employing them. But please let it suffice to know that I am merely skeptical and nothing more.
__________________
Memphremagog.
In te Domine speravi.
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Post by DrEdwardx on Feb 9, 2005 5:43:31 GMT -5
As i have said in a previous post , i fear we have strayed off topic a little.
let us examine the available facts .
TAMAS ORSZAG - 18TH -19TH CENTURY IMMIGRANT all we have is a name and name of building purchased/leased in the area , nothing pointing to him being either an eastern european nobleman or indeed a vampire.POSSIBLE THOUGH HIGHLY UNLIKELY CANDIDATE FOR HIGHGATE VAMPIRE
MIKHAIL OLEG OSTROG- 19TH CENTURY RUSSIAN IMMIGRANT, suspect in the Whitechapel murders , although later discredited as a serious suspect , later moved to highgate area after making a small fortune (allegedly), nothing heard of OSTROG after i believe 1909.The russian police files detailing the murders he was said to have commited would be an interesting read indeed, although if he was guilty of murders , maybe he was one of the first recorded serial killers and recognised as such by an organised police force.POSSIBLE THOUGH UNLIKELY CANDIDATE FOR HIGHGATE VAMPIRE, although his contemporary descriptions do resemble the pictures and descriptions of the highgate vampire , although this is most probably a coincidence.
we already have 2 suspects , if anyone has anymore supects , please feel free to post and make an analysis of the available data, of which i must admit is very scanty at the moment, MAYBE WE CAN CHANGE THAT .
Maybe , although this is only supposition , the vampire could also be a member of one of the families entombed in the columbarium ( i will leave the name of the family vault off of this posting to avoid upsetting any remaining relatives, although the name is well published).
there are an endless number of possibilities.
sweet dreams
Dr Edward x
sweet dreams ;D
Dr Edward X
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Post by Memphremagog on Feb 9, 2005 20:12:33 GMT -5
Mikhail Oleg Ostrog COULD be the Highgate Vampire but it is highly unlikely because if he first showed up on the London scene in the mid 1800s then he is about a century and a half later than the occupant of Asherst Manor who first manifested himself around the 1720s or 1730s, shortly after the vampire epidemic in Eastern Europe which yielded forth Arnold Paole and Peter Plogojowitz. If Ostrog was recorded as LIVING in the early 1800s then he can not be Tamas Orszog, and likely not the Highgate Vampire.
Then there is Orszog. Who is he? All we seem to know for sure is that he rented the old Asherst Manor house in the early 1700s, not really much more. Oak Carver and I have tried to find out who he might have been and have thus far found little constructive. I have found that Orszag means "nation" or "country" in Magyar. I have also discovered that Orszag seems to be of Jewish origin, probably of Ashkenazic descent from the old Khazar Empire (my father's ancestry also has remote Khazar roots from Austria-Hungary). If an unscrupulous person wanted to pass the blame off on to an unpopular minority group and away from his own then the Jews would have been a likely group. Many crimes which they never committed by them were blamed on the innocent Jews back in the days of yore.
Could the man who rented the Asherst estate have been using an alias? Yes I suppose he could have, but we just have no way of knowing! I mean for all I know his name might have Smith or Jones, although extremely unlikely! I wish we had a portrait of Tamas Orszag painted in life, but it seems such a portrait is unlikely to surface. If he had been a member of the nobility it seems likely that some portrait would have been painted either in England or his land of origin. But with all the wars that ravaged Europe since then it was likely destroyed, if it existed at all.
__________________
David Sattman.
In te Domine speravi.
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Post by DrEdwardx on Feb 11, 2005 6:48:53 GMT -5
I may now be able to trace what rudimentary victorian medical records may exist under the freedom of information act as they are now over 100 yrs old and not subject to confidentiality legislation.
He seemed to have covered quite a lot of the country our Mr Ostrog.
very interesting.
sweet dreams
Dr Edward X
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Post by oakcarver5 on Feb 12, 2005 11:09:03 GMT -5
hi all nice to be back,3rd time lucky?. dr.deward x ,put the name ostrog forward as a possible I.D for the highgate vampire.heres some info i found on the 1881 cencus :-michael ostrog,born 1834,age47,occupation.surgeon. (naturalized british subject)poland. household:-her majestys prison,portland,dorset.sincerely,oakcarver5
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Post by Vampirologist on Feb 13, 2005 5:32:56 GMT -5
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