The Children of Judas.

[Memphremagog]

I am rather suprised nobody has asked this before.
On page 183 of Montague Summers book THE VAMPIRE: HIS KITH AND KIN we read of some vampire lore from the region of Serbia, Bulgaria, and Romania of a specific breed of vampire that is thought to be descended from Yehudah bar Shimon Ishkarioth or Judas Iscariot. Let me just quote from that page:

"Red was the colour of the hair of Judas Iscariot, and of Cain, and an old Latin rhyme of the thirteenth century has:

Monet nos haec fabula rufos euitare
Quos color et fama notat, illis sociate.

The Italians say:

Capelli rosi
o tutto foco, o tutto mosci.

And then later again:

"I have not met with the following tradition save orally, but it is believed in Serbia, Bulgaria, and Rumania, that there are certain red-polled vampires who are called "Children of Judas," and that these, the foulest of the foul, kill their victim with one bite or kiss which drains the blood as it were at a single draught. The poisoned flesh of the victim is wounded with the Devil's stigmata, three hideous scars shaped thus, XXX, signifying the thirty pieces of silver, the price of blood."

If you will remember back in 2000 there was this stupid film entitled DRACULA 2000 which held that Dracula was really Judas Iscariot, that there were two deaths at the first Easter, Judas and Jesus, and two resurrections, Jesus as the Triumphant King of Glory and the Conqueror over death, and Judas as the Proto-Vampire! Now I found this film insufferably stupid, but it did have a rather intriguing plot, that Judas founded a kind of anti-Church with his vampire cult which became confused with the person known as Vlad Tepes in the mid 1400's. Furthermore since Judas was an apostle his perverse "church" would be apostolic in origin with power that would be a considerable threat to the Church founded by Jesus Christ and His Apostles.

Summers states that it was only in oral tradition that he relates this lore of Judas. Does anyone in the VRS or elsewhere know of a Judas Iscariot- Vampire connection? It was only in THE VAMPIRE: HIS KITH AND KIN that I read of it.

Also, I feel sorry for those unfortunates red-heads over the centuries that have been the victims of persecution by the authorities just because they had red hair! Does a similar thing exist anywhere today? I certainly hope not!

Of course Andrew Lloyd Webber and Tim Rice in their "rock opera" JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR, have Judas risen from the dead, not Jesus, since it is Judas who sings the title song near the end of the opus. Most people did not pick up on this, yet I noted it immediately upon hearing the recording and seeing the film.
___________________
Memphremagog.
In te Domine speravi.

[FrumiousBoojum]

I first heard of this through Dracula 2000 and first heard of it actually being based on the red-head lore through the commentary on the deleted scenes on the DVD. I became rather intrigued by that and wanted to learn a bit more, but hadn't found anything yet. Thanks for sharing that as I have yet to read any of Summers' books.

Biblical origins of vampires have become a bit of a fad among current vampire mythology as of late, one of the more interesting ones being in the Vampire: The Masquerade games, in which vampirism was the curse that was laid on Cain (though, as the game states, the vampire sects that believe this believe it to be more of a blessing). I've been interested to know if this was in some way based on an older lore as well or if it was merely a story invented for the game. I'm guessing the latter.

[BaronVordenburg]

Firstly the vampiric tradition of the 'Kiss of Judas' is a genuine strain of Slavic lore. Judas of Kerioth has always symbolized the foul traducer, accursed beyond the grave and as a suicide, one typically susceptible to the horror of vampiric resurrection. For a fictional treatment of this tradition see 'A Kiss of Judas' by 'XL' first published in the 'Pall Mall Magazine' in the 1890's and accompanied by illustrations by Aubrey Beardsley.

One can only conjecture, in the light of such traditions, upon the means by which the Highgate revenant attained to the hideous state of the Undead, whether by ritual suicide, hellish diableries beyond our imagining, demoniality and unspeakable pacts with the Arch-Fiend and his angels of darkness...such are the unhallowed paths which lead to the infernal mystery of the Nosferatu.

[Memphremagog]

Hello to Baron Vordenburg and welcome aboard these esoteric and arcane message boards! It is such a relief to find another person like Oak Carver and myself who believe in the existence of vampires just as +Manchester and +Summers describe them as being.

For such an unusual topic as true vampirism (the demonic undead that is) it is surprising that so few on board here believe in them! It seems that +Manchester, Katrina, Dennis, Oak Carver, Hans, me, and now you are the only ones who really accept the presence of the preternatural undead in the realm of reality! Anyway I am glad to see someone of a similar state of mind on these fora. Welcome aboard.

Memphremagog.
In te Domine speravi.

[Westny]

Memph and Baron:

It seems likely to me that at some point every potential vampire has faced the fear of God, physical death and Eternal Death and been assured "thou shalt not surely die . . . follow me and live!"

In one form or another, this is one of the perpetual lies promulgated by Satan and his minions down through the centuries. It will sound extremely sweet and alluring to the evil, but it could also seduce those who are merely mortal, weakened by original sin and afraid. Our mother Eve, while still in original innocense, fell through a similar lie and it has not lost its allure through the telling.

In a sense the vampire, as an archetypal image, whispers to the soul: "Be like me and LIVE! Determine good and evil for yourself, and be like GOD! Like God, you can dispense death where you will! Come!"

I can understand the allure, but like all of Satan's promises it is at best merely a twisting of the truth. It is, if the legends are true, merely the road to living death and living Hell. In the end it, at best, merely prolongs physical death and forestalls eternal death. Whether supernatural vampires actually exist or not, I pray God have mercy on the souls of all who hear this lie and listen to its siren call.

[Memphremagog]

As I have stated elsewhere the Vampire is a form of Anti-Christ. +Sean Manchester has stated this in his writings and in interviews. Like the Christ he will have real powers above and beyond those of mortals. The vampire can move through solid objects like cemetery walls as evidenced at Highgate. He can seemingly live for centuries or even millenia so long as he has blood, human or otherwise. He has the power of hypnosis as evidenced in the cases of Elizabeth Wojdyla and Lusia. He has the power to intimidate a would be vampire exorcist and slayer (for lack of a better word) into backing off with its infernally red eyes.

The alluring aspect of vampirism it seems to me appeals only to the normal mortal who wants eternal life here and now! Once that person has been possessed by a vampiric devil I would think the allurement would vanish and the reality of his horrible fate and condition would be there as a kind of hell on earth (I hesitate to use the word purgatory because it does not "purge"). So therefore the vampiric condition must be a foretaste of eternal hell, a condition which can only be partially made more bearable with exsanguination of others life blood.

The Vampirologist and I have discussed rather extensively about the soul of the vampire and the condition the undead possessed person may experience, but of course since neither of us are vampires neither can say for certain what it is that keeps the vampire going. Does the physical body need the blood or the demon, it is probably the body insomuch that without it it will die and make that rotten abode uninhabitable by the demon. Does it still retain its human memories or not? Who can say! It must certainly have memories as a fallen angel but as to the human aspect, I doubt anyone really knows!

If there is any humanity left in this horrid creature one would think it would long for real death. But if the vampire is truly a form of anti-christ it must possess humanity (as did Our Lord Jesus Christ) and some form of supernaturally or preternaturally blasphemous "divine" form! But this divne form is a gross and blasphemous imitation of the truly divine nature of Jesus Christ! It has to be demonic, it is as simple as that.

When we read novels like Anne Rice's tomes, or Varney the Vampire, or meet characters like Barnabas Collins, Lord Ruthven, Count Dracula, Lestat de Lioncourt, Nicholas Knight, Lucien LaCroix, or Carmilla von Karnstein we are asked to be somewhat sympathetic toward them because they are poor unfortunates in a real bad state! Reality seems to contradict this. Vampires are neither romantic or dashing, seductively tempting or cute, strikingly handsome or alluringly beautiful. Instead they are horribly deformed monsters that almost swim in squelching blood inside their coffin-homes.

Judas Iscariot was almost the antithesis of Christ. Yet originally his motives were for the betterment of the fledgling apostolic community. Here he became what is called a "Judas priest", not one who intended harm from the very beginning but who was seduced by evil spirits into the betrayal of the Savior of all humanity.

My original purpose in starting this thread was to see if there were many people who might think that an anti-church with ancient apostolic origins (after all Judas was an Apostle) might exist and be perhaps a source of vampirism. It is nothing more than speculation on my part as I know nothing of such a church actually existing, but I oft times wonder if there isn't such an ecclesiastical entity and if the so-called Luciferians and Satanists mentioned in the other board might not unwittingly be members of such a cult. If anyone has any opinions one this I welcome them.

Memphremagog.
In te Domine speravi.

[Westny]

Memph:

This is, indeed, a very interesting point for speculation. However, having read about many alleged conspiracies, I can honestly say that I have never heard of this one. Still, that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. It goes without saying that the more successful a secret society or movement is at keeping its secrets, the less there will be known about it.

I am also interested in the interaction, presence, absence, etc. of the human soul of the deceased in the vampiric entity. If your conversations with +Manchester are accessible online, I would like to have a chance to review them.

Cordially,
Westny

[Memphremagog]

My conversations with "Vampirologist" are available right here on this forum. Just read them for yourself. I think that Vampirologist is sometimes +Sean Manchester while at other times perhaps Dennis or Katrina but there have been times when Vampirologist responded in the first person to my questions about the Highgate Vampire motion picture.

The great thing about these fora and proboards is that you are rarely insulted for speculation so long as it does not become comically ludicrous like a certain Dr here. But then that is his right (to be ludicrous, that is).

Memphremagog.
In te Domine speravi.

[Memphremagog]

As to whether or not there is or ever was an ancient Anti-Church with anti-apostolic origins it is merely speculation. I believe that Judas died at his own hands and that he remained dead. But the possibility has arisen over the centuries that there is a secret and extremely ancient enemy that may have existed from Apostolic times.

Personally I believe this enemy was Simon Magus, a powerful wizard and diabolist who was a founding father of gnosticism. I further believe that the Gospel of John was written using gnostic type language so as to more effectively combat the inroads made by it into the fledglling Christian communities appearing in the Levant in the late first century. Now just how this movement grew and developed in the successive centuries and millenia is a mystery. There are few really accurate books on the subject even books on gnosticism proliferate!

It seems likely that St. John the Evangelist was intimately familiar with Simon Magus and his movement and succeeded in stating the orthodox doctrine in his Gospel and Revelation which seemed to nip the gnostic movement in the bud for a time. But gnosticism did not die and has survived to this very day.

But once again is there an ancient enemy church opposed to the Church of Christ on Earth? I don't know but I suspect that there is.

Memphremagog.
In te Domine spreravi.

[BaronVordenburg]

My dear Memph,

To your thesis regarding the Vampire brood of Judas and an Anti-Church possessing a kind of 'black apostolic succession' to this malfactor and traitor one might add a disquieting footnote - the blasphemous 'Gospel of Judas' preserved by certain gnostic sects of antiquity has been translated from the Coptic and I believe the English translation is due to be published in 2006. This will, one presumes, be a cause of rejoicing amongst those minions of the Devil consecrated to the unholy creed of of Lucifer-worship. These baneful cults of evil have grown and exfoliated in our own time like rank poisonous weeds to an extent unprecedented since the darkest days of antiquity or ever conceived in the wildest nightmares of the High Middle Ages.

Vordenburg

[oakcarver5]

hi memph,on the subject of a possible anti-church,well,i believe anything is possible,there are so many cults known & unknown in this world it blows the mind.Could not the freemasons be classed as the ultimate anti-church?,they have a hand in practically every walk of life,the government,royal families,the law,the military forces and of course the church!.This being the case,there is no need of another anti-church or the like is there?.There are masons amongst the clergy of the vatican,so they seem to be running the show.Hitler was of course pure evil,but even he had plans on destroying the masons for he must have known there power.regards,oak carver.

[Memphremagog]

Hello Oak Carver et alia:

In response to Oak Carver's ruminations about the Freemasons - it seems to me that although they are rich and powerful, internationally organized and influential, it still seems to me that they are only one manisfestation of the hidden anti-church. Perhaps their organization, or part of it at least, goes back to the time of Solomon and King Hiram of Tyre (whom the Masons call Hiram Abif). A bloke named Hiram was presumably the architectural genius behind the Solomonic Temple in Jerusalem. We know that there was a Phoenician King named Hiram ruling from his capitol in Tyre. Of course the Masons claim that this Hiram was one of the founding fathers of Freemasonry in antiquity. I can not say they are right or wrong, I simply don't know. If they are correct and there is indeed veracity to these legends then perhaps Masonry may be the antecedent to Judas Iscariot's possible anti-church. But bear in mind this is all nothing more than scholarly speculation.

I do believe that the Freemasons today are only a single manifestation of the much larger and monolithic superstructure by which the future Anti-Christ will come into power. Even most members of the highest Masonic circles are little more than "useful idiots" for a much larger agenda of which even they know nothing.

Crowley predicted that the world would abandon Christianity and adopt "Crowleyanity" (spelling ?). Of course he was wrong, but maybe only for the short run, it seems that his tenets differ little from a group of devil worshippers mentioned in a book entitled MICHELLE REMEMBERS. In that tome is recounted a horrifying account of a little girl named Michelle Smith who witnesses a high black mass in Victoria British Columbia in which Satan himself was called forth in a gruesome ritual called THE FEAST OF THE BEAST.

Anyway so as not to wax too long here, I believe the Masonic movement is but a single aspect of an international cabal of extremely rich and influential Satanists or Luciferians whose agenda is to establish the religious kingdom of Anti-Chirst here on earth. Just when this will come to fruition of course remains to be seen. PAX.

Memphremagog.
In te Domine speravi.

[Westny]

In studying secret organizations and brotherhoods there is a temptation to try to find or define one particular group as the "core" group, the heart and source of conspiracy. As I looked into the matter it occurred to me that this is not likely to be the case--it ignores the infernal source of such conspiracies and the infernal hierarchy ranged above them.

Consider. Numerous groups ranging from Teutonic Knights, to Masons, to the Illuminati, are claimed to be at the heart of some great overarching conspiracy. However, upon further study, they all appear to be fingers of the hand, not the uniting palm itself. Is there some group on Earth that acts as the controlling force for all of these groups--the anti-church for example? Is there some ancient evil group that is even more secret than these secret societies and stands above them?

Perhaps, but then again perhaps not. Is it not just as likely that the uniting palm is located in the spiritual realm? It could just as easily be that each of these groups is merely the lower material echelon of a demonic hierarcy. Each may have its governing demon and each of these demons fit into a hierarchy (or lowerarchy as Screwtape would say) headed ultimately by Satan. So, if there is such an anti-church, I would tend to see it as just one more finger of the hand of Hell, not as the ultimate controlling source of conspiracies and opposition to the True Church.

On the other hand, this does not mean that such a group does not exist. Its role may require even greater secrecy. It may not even be intended to play an active role until sometime close to the end. Every army has its specialized troops. Perhaps as Memph suggests, there is an anti-church poised to serve as a religious base for the Anti-Christ when he comes. Time will, unfortunately, tell.

Westny

[Westny]

Memph:

Back to an earlier question. I just finished scanning the various topics on the board vis-a-vis my question about the presence of the human soul of the deceased in the vampiric entity. There are, as you know, quite a few posts on this board. Could you point me to the particular topics, etc. where your communications with the vampirologist on this subject are located? If possible, this will save me from a lot of fruitless searching.

Thanks for any help you can render in this regard.

Cordially,
Westny

[Memphremagog]

I presume that if such an anti-church exists that it is very amorphous or even polymorphous. It probably, like the ancient gnostic religions, has no fixed credo or magisterium. It probably is open to anyone's ideas being included in its tenets (if that is the correct word) so long as it in no way conflicts with the set and determined goal of ousting Christianity and establishing the worship of the Anti-Christ. Its leadership may consist of a few elite members from several of the established groups already mentioned here.

As far as the influence of these groups on Christianity is concerned all we have to do is refer to the post-conciliar (Vatican II) mess that the late Archbishop Annibale Bugnini foisted upon the Church.

Here we had one man alone inflict upon the Roman Catholic Church a Missa Normativa in 1967 which became formalized and compulsory in 1969 and 1970. In other words one man, Bp. Annibale Bugnini, did incomparable and unmeasurable damage to the Catholic Church in his NOVUS ORDO MISSAE which amounted to the destruction of the Roman Rite! He is reported to have snickered and snidely commented that this was a great Masonic victory over the Roman Catholic Church.

Bugnini was probably a Mason, and when Paul VI found it out he sent him packing to Iran where he died in relative obscurity.

Remember these people are not going to come out and openly declare war on Christianity until the Church is so debilitated that it will be unable to defend itself. These people are mostly present in the shadows and rarely come out into the open. Even Bugnini remained relatively obscure even though he was the head of a very important commission whose purpose was to overthrow the Traditional Tridentine Rite. No one knew what really was happening until it was too late!

Now how does this tie in with the Children of Judas? It is of course an anti-church which ancient origins as old as the real church itslef! I have no proof that a real Anti-Church exists, but I suspect that somewhere something sufficing to pass for actually exists.

In fact I hope I am completely wrong about this, we must not allow paranoia to set in or we may defeat ourselves without one barrage even being fired from our enemies!

Memphremagog.
In te Domine speravi.