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Post by Memphremagog on May 5, 2005 17:49:07 GMT -5
If no one knows that vampiric crimes are taking place then it stands to reason that a crime scene investigation with that as a likely scenario will not take place. As stated if there are even numerous people in a metropolitan area like London victimized by a nosferatu, but because few people exept us here actually believe in them, then there will of course be no outcry for an "official vampire investigation".
It may appear to the police like some people from time to time and place to place are wandering around graveyards in their sleep and appear anemic. The connection to vampirc activity will not usually be made, and so the local police will merely scratch their heads and move on to another non vampiric scenario.
Even in the case of the Highgate Vampire it was not until Sean Manchester concluded that supernatural vampirism was involved that anything happened. Presumably it had manifested itself from time to time to various people which only resulted in more scary stories being circulated. But talk and gossip, prattle and ghost stories did nothing for more than 250 years! It reached its ultimate climax only when Sean Manchester finally arrived at the correct conclusion: supernatural vampirism was afoot!
Who knows if similar activity is not even now taking place elsewhere in London, Rome, Paris, New York, or your own home town?!?! If it is then it must be first of all be properly and accurately diagnosed as supernatural vampirism before the proper antidotes can be employed.
Memphremagog. In te Domine speravi.
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Post by Westny on May 6, 2005 8:06:25 GMT -5
Memph:
That is indeed the point--the unobtrusive vampire could theoretically remain hidden in the modern city very well, and indeed much better than in some isolated country abode. This raises two questions for me.
First, why wasn't the Highgate vampire more reclusive? Seemingly, it could have operated without revealing itself so blatantly to passers-by. It did not need to murder a human so close to its abode, or even to feed on the local foxes. Thus, I see evidence of one or possibly two things. On the one hand, it may have been possessed of such an unbearable drive to feed that it, like an addict craving a fix, was overwhelmed and lacked the will to resist its instincts. (This is certainly consistent with some images and legends dealing with such creatures.) On the other hand, it could be that the creature could control its drives, but was so assured of its own invincibility after so many years of operating with impunity that it simply made little effort to do so. (Demonic pride and/or demonically inspired hubris are also consistent with many legends and/or images of such creatures.) We may never know which obtained in this case, but I incline towards the latter. The evidence to me seems to indicate an old and proud revenant, a master vampire who took little or no thought for its potential human opposition.
Second, how could the more reclusive vampire be detected? On this I continue to await more tangible suggestions from the reading audience.
Cordially, Westny
P.S.-By the way, the operations of the Highgate vampire (and indeed all legends of vampires) seems to indicate that such creatures operate within a limited radius of their resting place. It would be interesting to be able, in some manner, to quantify this distance. Westny
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Post by Vampirologist on May 6, 2005 9:10:40 GMT -5
Some of these constraints are touched on in The Highgate Vampire book and also in The Vampire Hunter's Handbook.
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Post by Westny on May 12, 2005 15:51:40 GMT -5
Dear Vampirologist:
Thanks for the comment on constraints. I appreciate the pointer.
However, I would be interested in your imput on the specific subject under discussion. Can a consistently and continuously unobtrusive vampire exist in fact as well as in theory? Or, is a vampire bound by its own demonic nature and needs to manifest itself in a definitive manner (if only intermittently)?
If the former is true, there may be large numbers of vampires at work at any time and only those who lack discretion are detected and (possibly) exterminated. If so, then the question of how to detect such creatures based on public record or other evidence arises.
If the latter is true, then the Highgate Vampire would be more typical of the breed, and fairly definitive appearances and acts should be expected at least intermittently from any "normative" vampire. "Intermittently" may be, indeed, only very intermittently across the centuries. However, even in the case of the reported creature at Kirklees, these intermittent appearances are definitive, eerie, unnatural and unnerving.
I lean towards the latter if only because the reported facts of cases seem to indicate an unmistakable degree of arrogance or need that drives such creatures to rather fearlessly manifest themselves in their quest for blood. (However, I must admit that the reported facts could be skewed--as unobtrusive vampires would not, by definition, be reported.) I also incline in this direction because the former tends to play into the hands of those who portray the vampire as an urbane and immortal (even if vilely evil) sophisticate rather than a demon possessed blood glutted corpse of a once living person. The former is also, even if only in a moderated way, too similar to the position held by the vampiroids and their ilk.
However, I would welcome your thoughts. Was the Highgate vampire typical or atypical of the type? If typical, then we can reasonably expect that most vampires will manifest themselves to a somewhat similar degree (some more and some--like Kirklees--less). However, there will be very few or none that operate in an unobtrusive and totally stealthy manner. This would be something valuable to know, if only for the peace of mind it would bring.
Cordially, Westny
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Post by Vampirologist on May 13, 2005 6:16:51 GMT -5
The vampire is bound by its own demonic nature and needs to manifest itself in a definitive manner - if only intermittently.
This is the majority view held by those within the Vampire Research Society.
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Post by Westny on May 13, 2005 8:13:03 GMT -5
As previously noted, this is the position I would prefer. The possibility that large numbers (and perhaps a majority) of vampires operate unobtrusively raises extremely difficult detection/eradication issues.
The preferred position means that (barring some extremely rare and unforseen circumstance) we need only look into legends and manifestations that are typical of the type to locate and deal with this form of demonic manifestation.
It would also mean that, barring local legends that have not travelled outside of their particular region, vampires remain very rare indeed in the Western World--as there appear to be very few present manifestations in evidence (intermittently or otherwise).
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Post by BaronVordenburg on May 31, 2005 17:34:10 GMT -5
Our esteemed Westny wrote:
"This is particularly true because, as you point out and as previously discussed on this thread, his operations are extremely unlikely to be recognized. They will be given a naturalistic explanation, even an absurd one. As with scripture and miracles, the modern mind will accept almost any explanation, no matter how implausible, in order to avoid having to deal with the supernatural. Even those with some idea of the supernatural will balk at the idea of a supernatural entity that does not fit into their particular paradigm. And, few of the muddle-headed new age set accept the existence of real evil any more than they accept real divinity (with all the demands this places on their existence)."
Very well put. The modernist, the rationalist, the atheist, all such adherents of the misbegotten creed of the 'Enlightenment' which underpins the materialistic world-view of this crepuscular epoch, are all in denial as regards the reality of radical metaphysical evil - so the vampire, and the whole demonic realm, is something they cannot comprehend or must needs deny, even whilst surrounded daily by the foul proofs of demonically-inspired deeds and human corruptibility. The new age and neopagan didappers (atheists hiding under pantheistic garb) are likewise deluded, bewrayed and blinded.
Better instead to heed the wise and measured words of the 17th century theologian Joseph Glanvill :
'Those who dare not say, 'There is no GOD', content themselves (for a fair step and Introduction) to deny that there are Spirits and Witches.'
- from the 'Saducismus Triumphatus; or, Full and plain evidence concerning witches and apparitions' (1689).
The relevance to the question of vampirism and demonry and of those who would deny the age-old reality of such awful mysteries is very clear.
best regards
Vordenburg
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Post by BaronVordenburg on May 31, 2005 17:57:10 GMT -5
As to cases of vampiric infestation in Europe, in addition to the Highgate horror in 1970's London let us also not forget the more recent exhumation and staking in the ancient and approved manner of a Vampyre which had been afflicting villagers in Dolj County in the Carpathians - this took place in February 2004 in south-western Romania and offers quite an an interesting comparative parallel to the Highgate case in many respects.
With Good Regards
Vordenburg
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