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Post by Memphremagog on Jan 14, 2004 19:44:10 GMT -5
Who was the Highgate Vampire in life? What might have been his ethnic origins? Are there records of a foreigner entering England in the early 1700's whose entry was soon followed by vampire attacks? The photos of the early stages of dissolution of the Highgate Vampire suggest perhaps an eastern European or Middle Eastern origin, don't you think? He must have been a human being at one time who later on bacame a vampire. We know of the stories of Arnold Paole and Peter Plogowitz, for example, but what of the Highgate Vampire? Might it be possible to research his origins and reconstruct a "biography" of sorts?
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Post by Vampirologist on Jan 15, 2004 4:43:39 GMT -5
The identity of the Highgate Vampire is dealt with on pages 50-51 of the Gothic Press edition of THE HIGHGATE VAMPIRE by Seán Manchester. The text speaks of "a mysterious nobleman from the Continent who arrived in the wake of the vampire epidemic which had its origins in south-east Europe." The conjecture that he might be Eastern European is therefore reasonable. Book details: www.gothicpress.freeserve.co.uk/Highgate%20Vampire%20Book.htm |
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Post by songstress on Aug 24, 2004 9:21:36 GMT -5
Hi Mephremagog,
I highly recommend that you read 'The Highgate Vampire.' It answers a lot of questions concerning the Highgate vampire case. Some of the events told of, can be looked upon as 'fantastic' until one reads further into the book.
Love,
Patsy.
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Post by Memphremagog on Sept 14, 2004 23:54:36 GMT -5
The name Tamas Orszag was presented as a possible, and I empahasize a POSSIBLE, candidate by Katrina in a previous inquiry on the Cross and the Stake. Has anyone done research as to who Tamas Orszag was, his origin, birth date, arrival in England, and so on? It seems to be Hungarian, is that right? And where did he come from? When exactly did he arrive and on what vessel? It seems it must have been during or shortly after the vampire plague of the early 1700s that Orszag or the Highgate Vampire first touched English soil. Anyway I presume its too late to do anything more than speculate on this but if the answer is known I would appreciate knowing it. Pax. Memphremagog.
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Post by Vampirologist on Sept 15, 2004 0:39:19 GMT -5
Too much blood has flowed under the bridge.
Too much time has elapsed.
Too many scholarly people who accessed documents in the last century are now themselves sadly passed away.
We are left with mere fragments of an incomplete puzzle.
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Post by DrEdwardx on Jan 31, 2005 5:43:48 GMT -5
Hello . I would like to point you in the possible direction of the identity of the highgate vampire. it would be worth looking in the direction of a russian immigrant shoemaker/leather worker called Mikhail Oleg Ostrog, possibly from the kiev region of russia , who was by no means a nobleman, who settled in the east end area of london in the 1860's ( im sorry i do not have a specific date yet). After making a reasonable fortune(which would be highly unusual for a shoemaker , let alone an immigrant one in the victorian period), it is rumoured that Mikhail Oleg Ostrog moved to the Highgate area of london in the 1890's. No mention is made of Mikhail Oleg Ostrog after 1906 . Mikhail Oleg Ostrog was under investigation by the russian authorites for what we would describe today as a series of vampiric/vampiroid murders, and Mikhail Oleg Ostrog was also investigated by the fledgling metropolitan police service over a series of murders that bore the hallmarks of vampiric attack in the greater london area  (4 i believe). the highgate vampire pictures bear a maked resemblance to the descriptions of ostrog given at the time. it's worth thinking about. sweet dreams Dr Edward X |
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Post by Vampirologist on Jan 31, 2005 8:14:44 GMT -5
The similarity between the surnames "Orszag" and "Ostrog" is striking, and I certainly feel that this line of enquiry would be worth pursuing.
Maybe he passed himself off as a nobleman?
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Post by Memphremagog on Jan 31, 2005 20:00:55 GMT -5
Could Tamas Orszag and Mikhail Oleg Ostrog from Kiev be the same person? Perhaps, but it seems that Bishop Manchester stated that the one known as Orszag arrived in London about the time of the vampire epidemic that swept Eastern Europe in the opening decades of the 18th century whereas Mikhail Oleg Ostrog, according to the previous post showed up around the 1860s or thereabouts. It could be that these are one and the same person. But then it might be two different people. Perhaps both were vampires. If I had the time and money I would investigate this much further but alas I have not enough of either!!
I just ran a check on one of the websites that deal with ancient armorial bearings to see if either Orszag or Ostrog has a coat of arms. I saw neither name listed. But bear in mind the site I checked may not necessarily have all of the names of the nobility that ever existed as they state in their disclaimer.
So then, what are we left with here? A tantalyzing lead to be sure. Ostrog and Orszag might be aliases used by both men (or one man) if they (he) was on the outs with the law! Orszag is Hungarian without a doubt, the word means "nation" or "country" in Hungarian. Ostrog may very well be Russian or Ukrainian.
You mentioned the photos of the deteriorating Highgate Vampire. In the first photo there is still enough of the creature left to see a broad, squared off chin typical of Slavic and Turkic peoples. There also seems to be a massive eye brow ridge that runs the full width of the man's forehead. If you remember the late Lenonid Brezhnev had a similar characteristic. His hair appeared to be black or very dark brown, characteristic of Slavic origin. The earliest photo of the Highgate Vampire unfortunately has the nose already mostly caved in. Perhaps Bishop Manchester or one of those present at the exorcism and destruction of this monster can remember what the nose was like. I would guess, lacking photographic evidence other then the ones in THE HIGHGATE VAMPIRE, that the nose was rather aquline and prominent. Likewise the eyes are too far collapsed to see what shape they were but they appear to have been prominent as well. As to the other physical characteristics we must rely on the information presented in the excellent book by Bishop Manchester.
I suppose even for Bishop Manchester that it was so long ago, and those that helped him were concerned with ridding London of this contagion and keeping their own lives safe and sound and their sanity intact that it would be a bit much to expect many more details than is evident from the text and the photographs that are presently available to us.
As far as Ashurst Manor is concerned it seems to have been rented to a bloke named Tamas Orszag around the early 1700s. That is all Katrina could tell me for sure. After the masnion was razed there seemed to be odd sightings of an eerie nature involving an Eastern European looking man with a menacing countenance in the area of Highgate Village and Hampstead Heath and this lasted until Sean Manchester and his friends dispatched the filthy thing back to hell!
This is all very intriguing to me and I would like to know a lot more about this but we may already have all the pertinent inforamation that ever existed short of an Anne Rice type scenario like an "interview with the vampire", and, since no such interview ever took place or will ever take place we are left with what Bishop Manchester has left us, and that is a fascinating account all in itself.
PAX.
___________________
Memphremagog.
In te Domine speravi.
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Post by DrEdwardx on Feb 1, 2005 5:59:27 GMT -5
hello everyone. I have a personal theory , which during my long career as a forensic secretary , i have found to be 99% rule of thumb. HIDE IN PLAIN SIGHT . When a serial killer has been revealed to his freinds and family as such , the usual reply given to the press is " he was such a nice boy , he could not be capable of anything like that , it could not have possibly been him(or her)". Maybe the ideal way for a vampire to pass himself off in society , would be as a humble east end shoemaker from kiev , rather than a bedjewelled exotic aristocrat from eastern europe , which would only draw attention to itself and it's nocturnal feeding habits", ( a legacy i fear we have inherited from hollywood and hammer horror films) . it does not stand to reason that all vampires are of aristocratic stock , in fact the opposite seems to apply , as in the arnold paole case , and the recent romanian vampire exorcisms, carried out in the old fashioned way of staking the corpse , burning the remains , and mixing the heart and ashes , and drinking the brew as a cure for vampiric infection( i still have to verify the authenticity of the report , as it was in a sunday tabloid). vampires and victims , tend to be of proletariat/peasant stock , as the victims will tend not to be missed , and the vampire can easily mingle amongst the throng to disguise his activities. im afraid a vampire prowling around london in an opera cape and top hat , even in victorian england ( especially around the time the original Dracula novel was published) would only draw attention to itself, much as it would today. even jack the ripper was reported as wearing a blanket coat and a deerstalker hat(quite common clothing in 1888) , rather than the now traditional top hat , cloak and medical bag (still perpetuated by hollywood) social camoflauge and peoples inability to believe in supernatural beings are the vampires greatest defence. sweet dreams Dr Edward X |
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Post by Vampirologist on Feb 1, 2005 11:13:17 GMT -5
From: OakCarver
dear management,ive just been perusing the highgate forum,of which i have been a member,but for some reason cannot get on there now,(which unfortunately has been the case for sometime).Concerning the identity of the highgate vampire,mikhail ostrog was a suspicious character,and was at one time under suspicion during the whitechapel murders of 1888,at that time,his movements were followed closely by the police,But i can assure you that he was not responsible for the so-called jack the ripper murders.I have traced my ancestry back on both sides of my family so far to the early 1700s,and im now in the proccess of tracing two other peoples geneaology.recently whilst looking for someone on (ancestry.com)
i typed in tamas orszag and found one entry going back in time in hungary,i do not have the info to offer you unfortunately,as this particular entry was under lock & key so to speak,and i would have had to subscribe to ancestry.com to gain this info.it may be worth it if it helps you to discover the background of the mysterious tamas orszag,god bless,oak carver.
[Posted on behalf of OakCarver by Vampirologist]
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Post by Vampirologist on Feb 2, 2005 6:35:04 GMT -5
A composite of the Highgate Vampire's appearance can be gleaned from various statements in the VRS files and, of course, on public record in Seán Manchester's account in print.*
Its appearance in the putrid chamber of its tomb at Highgate Cemetery in August 1970 to its extirpation in the grounds of the neo-gothic derelict mansion in early 1974 is one of a heavy form, gorged and stinking with blood with eyes glazed and staring horribly, glinting with the red fire of perdition. This great leech possessed sallow, parchment-like skin beneath which a faint bluish tinge could be discerned; the colour of a three-day old corpse. It had black hair and eyebrows that were especially heavy and joined across the bridge of an aquiline nose. The mouth betrayed thin, cruel lips which drew back, almost in a snarl, to reveal sharp teeth where lodged congealed gouts of discolouring blood, the offal of the previous night's feast. Some witnesses describe a tall figure with a hideous countenance. All remark upon the eyes which burned like hot coals in a face so frightening it paralysed them in their tracks. There was also the unbearably fetid stench that accompanied this presence, rank with corruption and the stench of the charnel, which indicated an undead rather than an apparition.
The last moments, some of which were captured by a 35mm camera, reveal the same "burning, fierce eyes beneath black furrowed brows staring with hellish reflection. Yellow at the edges with blood-red centres, unlike anything imaginable. Flared nostrils connected to a thin, high-bridged nose. The mouth still set in its cruel expression with lips drawn far back as if unable to contain the sharp, white teeth."*
*(The Highgate Vampire, pages 85, 86 & 142.)
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Post by DrEdwardx on Feb 3, 2005 11:33:40 GMT -5
Serious Researchers in the vampire field , could have had a field day in the 1970's( when i was still at school) , had we had the technology to hand that we now have , such as D.N.A profiling , and instant acess to data via computers and the net and integrated systems. I have been fascinated by the Highgate Vampire , ever since i saw the furore that erupted in the early 70's and it did make riveting ( and rather scary)viewing for the time ( i did rather fancy Sandra Harris as well ;D, and remember her onsite reporting of the vampire, and of her being genuinely scared ) I do fear that if a sample was available nowadays of the vampires remains , it would be nigh on impossible to identify the vampires origin(not the identity sadly) , due to contamination of the sample ( it would be nice if someone did have a sealed sample as i would just love to profile it) , OFFERS ANYONE -LOL  . Mikhail Oleg Ostrog was indeed investigated for the Whitechapel murders , but was dismissed as a serious suspect at the time , but no further investigations were made , and the russian authorities reports ( what little remains) would make fascinating reading , especially if you ignore the Whitechapel murders , and put them into their proper perspective. I do fear that as previous posts have remarked , that too much water has passed under the bridge , and that the comtemporary testimonies outlined in the previous posts are the only reliable source of information on the subject. may the nails on your coffins never rust ;D. all the best . Dr Edward X |
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Post by Memphremagog on Feb 3, 2005 19:18:03 GMT -5
IF it were possible to get even the tiniest amount of DNA from the remains of the Highgate Vampire and examine it what would be accomplished? Precioius little I think. Would you want to clone it like the creatures in Jurassic Park? My God I hope not!!! Anyway as I understand it the remains were thoroughly cremated and the ashes interred in a location known only to a tiny select group of persons, and I suppose that is the best thing after all. But IF, and I emphasize IF one were to get DNA from it, or any other vampire for that matter, it would be extremely hazardous.
Why? Because if the life of the creature can be recreated then it stands to reason that the same demonic entity that possessed it in the first place would either return or become reactivated. Then you would have the same problem all over again. Plus if you became infected with the DNA containing the demonic spirit you could become a vampire yourself. This all sounds like the stuff horror stories are made of, doesn't it? But we must be careful when dealing with the basic building blocks of life itself since only God really knows what he is doing.
Yes it would be nice to know more positively things about this creature and his kith an kin but beware so as not to become much like Dr. Faust and wind up selling your soul and sanity just to scatch an itch of curiosity.
PAX.
____________________
Memphremagog.
In te Domine speravi.
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Post by DrEdwardx on Feb 4, 2005 9:01:13 GMT -5
Sorry to bore you all with the basics of D.N.A profiling , of which 99% of the population of the western world must now be familiar with , but a small sample of REAL vampire D.N.A would indeed be useful to the forensic community as well as the genuine vampire hunter. i will give three reasons below . 1) A small uncontaminated D.N.A sample would enable us to identify the racial origin of a vampire and hopefully stem any infection of the local and wider community at source. 2) If for some reason there was a sample already identified on a D.N.A database , and lets say for instance some details of the vampire were known , it would enable swift action to be taken by all parties concerned, were it agreed that the attacks in a certain area were vampiric in origin. 3) Were it indeed possible to clone a vampire ( Which with current technoligy is NOT beyond the realms of possibility ) , the vampire could be studied at close hand in controlled circumstances , much in the same way that we currently study serial killers and sex attackers .If this were possible do you not agree that the benefits to mankind would be worth the risk ? . 4) A serious study into the behaviour patterns of authenticated vampires should be undertaken, and any samples that are taken should be studied , be it clothing or D.N.A or personal possessions , and a data base created so that more information is available on hand to enable identification and destruction of any creature that comes to light. on an even more serious note . Did you know that the Metropolitan Police estimate that on average 33,000 people, yes 33,000 are reported missing every year in london alone . Of that number over ONE THIRD are never heard of again , that means over 10,000 people dissapear and are never heard of again, that is the population of a large village or even some small towns. It makes you wonder just how many vampiric attacks could be unreported in the london area alone , or maybe barring human intervention , there could be something even more horrible stalking the london streets. i welcome all your comments. sweet dreams Dr Edward X |
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Post by Memphremagog on Feb 4, 2005 22:24:39 GMT -5
Dear Dr. Edward X:
I am not disagreeing with you on the sceintific aspects of forensic DNA profiling of the vampire. What I take issue with is the PRETERNATURAL or SUPERNATURAL aspects of it all. In retaining any amount of the original flesh of the vampire it stands to reason that the demonic entity might still be clinging to it, and therein lies the danger. You can analyze the remains all you want and no scientific analysis will reveal the evil presence in the demon. There is no science available that can detect the presence of a demon. Demons are fallen angels and when one of them possesses a dead or expired body you have a vampire. The demon, existing on a level other than our own, and being supernatural in character is not subject to our natural laws and therefore is likewise not subject to natural scientific detection.
I would wager that if you tried to detect a demonic presence by ordinary psychiatric, psychological and forensic means you would find nothing! Ditto for the undead. Since the demonic aspect is uncontrollable it is also unpredictable. How would you scientifically analyze a creature passing through solid walls like some people who witnessed the Highgate Vampire said it did? No my friend if you ever have such an opportunity you will need a lot more than science to protect you! I do not mean to insult your intelligence or your expertise in forensic science, it is that no one has expertise in vampiric detection other than the Vampire Research Society and I doubt that they use forensics and DNA profiling to fight the evil undead. You would only get in their way and impede any attempts they might try to bring it to its end.
PAX
_____________________
Memphremagog.
In te Domine speravi.
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(4 i believe).
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