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Post by Memphremagog on Mar 20, 2004 20:50:39 GMT -5
I understand that whenever a vampire is exorcised and destroyed, that it is necessary to avoid contamination of oneself or one's friends at the site. I presume that the possiblility of accidentally ingesting the creature's blood is real! Can a person in the process of ending a vampire's existence become one himself if infected by the blood of the vampire? If the vampire is both demon and human then is the contagion biological as well as supernatural? What I am really asking here is: can a person become a vampire against his or her will through, or by, contamination, of the vampiric blood? I understand that one can become a vampire by the use of the free will through an invitation to a demonic entity. However, can one become such a monster by being attacked? Also, can one become a vampire by being forced (by the vampire) to partake of its blood? I have read of the girl Lusia in THE HIGHGATE VAMPIRE and that she beacme one. But I am not sure HOW she became one! It seems she became one against her will, if I read the account correctly. She appears to have become a vampire by a number of attacks by the original Highgate Vampire. Perhaps it is impossible to know! Finally, what ever happened to Elizabeth Wojdyla? I don't mean to pry into her life today, I only wonder if she is alive and well and totally free of the evil that once threatened her. As to her whereabouts, that is none of my business nor anyone elses, I only hope that she is well and free of the vampiric danger.
Peace in Christ, Memphremagog.
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Post by Vampirologist on Mar 21, 2004 6:51:25 GMT -5
Free will is a tricky subject. How many things do we do out of an absolutely "free will"? There are so many influences at work all the time. We are the product of our choices, but those choices are often influenced by everything around us. If someone is genuinely exercising their free will and is wearing the full armour of God, a predatory demon, ie vampire, cannot prevail.
On the question of blood, an entire chapter is devoted to this topic in "The Vampire Hunter's Handbook" (Gothic Press, 1997) where, on page 13, the author writes:
"The significance of blood is not lessened where occultists are concerned. They openly admit that the smallest drop of blood can be used for ill; that it might be employed by a demonic entity and enable the wraith to form a tangible body. Such revenants are much attracted to blood which enables them to effect their purpose."
In his unpublished memoir, Stray Ghosts, the same author writes the following about Lusia:
"The tomb of the vampire was located in August 1970, as revealed in the 24 Hours programme, a BBC television film documentary, transmitted on 15 October 1970, and later confirmed in Peter Underwood's 'The Vampire's Bedside Companion' (1975 & 1976) and 'Exorcism!' (1990), plus J Gordon Melton's 'The Vampire Book: Encyclopedia of the Undead' (1994), and my own 'The Highgate Vampire' (1985 & 1991). Three years and three months following the BBC documentary, the primary source was properly exorcised by me and an assistant identified only as 'Arthur.' Several 35mm photographs, some of which are reproduced in 'The Highgate Vampire' book, were taken of the vampire in its final moments of dissolution. These pictures have also been transmitted and discussed on various television programmes in the United Kingdom. 'Among the many people who contacted me,' I recounted in the first complete account of the case, 'was the sister of a beautiful twenty-two-year-old woman, whom I shall call Lusia.' [The Highgate Vampire, British Occult Society, 1985, pages 45-46.]
"She is someone who has never been identified — a photographic model, later an actress, would portray Lusia in representations and reconstructions of her part in the case. This was due to the tragic outcome, and a need to preserve her identity in perpetuity. There is no denying that Lusia was special to me. There has been a great deal of speculation about her because, in the aftermath of the Highgate exorcism, her story evolved into one of the more extreme metaphysical outcomes that will not surprise the trained and seasoned demonologist, but is certainly a difficult area for most others.
"My initial discovery of her was one of sheer delight tinged with a terrible sadness that grew stronger until it finally eclipsed her. Within the sombre tones of an apt piece of music she became enshrouded. I wrote: 'Her cascading flaxen tresses caught the dull illumination of the moonlight in their pale reflection. Somewhere, in the background, I could hear the dying pulses of Strauss’ solemn orchestral work, Metamorphosen. It haunts me to this day.' [The Highgate Vampire, Gothic Press, 1991, pages 70-71.]
"Lusia entered my life as an attractive young virgin, living in north London, who, being touched by what lies beyond earthly confines, became part of an unfolding array of nightmarish visions and visitations associated with Highgate at that time. I glimpsed an indistinct figure toward the end, a figure swathed in a white cerement, her face the colour of marble save for her mouth, which seemed full and wanton. This was not the Lusia I had first known. It was something else. A shade of something that had been sucked dry of life."
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Post by songstress on Aug 27, 2004 9:13:47 GMT -5
Exactly. Perhaps the most tragic figure in the whole of the Highgate vampire case, was that of Lusia. She became sucked into the world of the undead, and paid the ultimate price for it. I know that Rev Manchester liked her very much.
Love,
Patsy.
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Post by Vampirologist on Aug 27, 2004 11:15:48 GMT -5
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Post by BaronVordenburg on Apr 26, 2005 16:04:48 GMT -5
It is indeed as well that the remains of the Highgate Vampire were thoroughly destroyed by Sean Manchester. It is my belief that even a small quantity of the original blood of the Highate Vampire, even a pinch of the scarlet powder of the blood thereof, would be sufficient, if it fell into the wrong hands, for an advanced Diabolist to forge a link with the King Vampire , the Wallachian nobleman who after his death became the Nosferat who dwelt within the environs of Highgate. Just a speculation.
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Post by oakcarver5 on Apr 27, 2005 9:40:39 GMT -5
hello baron,wether there is an advanced diabolist who can conjure up such things,remains to be seen,as for a "king vampire",i believe that was originally a pun by the press,and where pray did you get wallachian from?,the only tamas orszag i could find originated from hungary,regards,oak carver.
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Post by Westny on Apr 27, 2005 10:59:46 GMT -5
I wouldn't take the "Baron" too seriously. His name as well as his verbiage indicates that he is putting on an act. He does have one advantage over some others of this ilk--at least he knows how to use a Thesaurus.
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Post by BaronVordenburg on Apr 27, 2005 11:59:09 GMT -5
My dear Westny,
You do me a disservice, Sir. I can assure you that I am not putting on an 'act' as you term it, but am in truth an earnest and long-standing student of these night-shrouded arcana of the crumbling necropoli and the ivy-clad sepulchre. As to what you slightly less than charitably refer to as my 'verbiage' I may assure you that this faithfully reproduces the tenor of my everyday diction. It is no fault of mine that our language has suffered advanced deliquescence since the days of my youth.
But I digress, it is not my wish to stray from our topics, only to assure you of my sincerity.
Yours
Baron V.
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Post by BaronVordenburg on Apr 27, 2005 13:16:02 GMT -5
Dear Oakcarver and Potok,
My post was entirely hypothetical, in the realms of purely speculative Vampirology, I hasten to reassure you.
But I repeat my thesis - even a single drop or trace of the gore exuded by the Highgate revenant, even crusted or reduced to a sanguinary powder, would provide a skilled Diabolist or Necromancer with a palpable means to establish an abhorrent link with the discarnate spirit of the 'King Vampire', the hell-doom'd soul of the Wallachian nobleman whose post-mortem depradations gave rise to the hideous legend of the 'Highgate Vampire'.
Now I do not theorize that any such operation of Black Magic (such as, for example, the full ceremonial celebration of Le Messe Noir by a defrocked priest) has been performed or otherwise. I simply posit the issue as a possibility in the wake of any case of Vampiric infestation. Such abominations did not cease with the rise of the 'Siecle des Lumieres' and the Cartesian rationalism of the 18th century, however much modern man might wish they had.
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Post by Westny on Apr 28, 2005 12:17:59 GMT -5
Dear Baron:
I hereby willingly suspend disbelief as to your genuineness. If you are not genuine, you are so committed to your role and have worked with so much obvious talent to cultivate it as to deserve some respect for that alone. Besides, your posts are enjoyable and atmospheric (if only for their delightfully archaic construction): You are certainly in keeping with the spirit of the place.
By the way, what you "theorize" has formed (in one way or another) a major part of some stock "Dracula" type vampire movies. As a plot device it is necessary for a sequel to posit some way of reviving the shifty-eyed vampiric villain who was vanquished by the hero in the previous movie. Thus, means of revival similar to the one you theorize have been suggested in this context.
On the other hand, while I am no expert, I know of no classical source that suggests that this can be done. (This is one reason for my suspicions as to your genuineness). Thus, I would be very interested to know if you can provide any supporting cites for your theory.
Cordially,
Westny
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Post by BaronVordenburg on Apr 28, 2005 17:07:21 GMT -5
Dear Westny,
Your generous post is assuredly appreciated. My years spent poring over crumbling manuscripts in umbral halls and vaulted libraries by candlelight, my midnight peregrinations amid moonlit mausolea and whispering cypresses in quest of the unseen have certainly affirmed my belief in the world beyond the veil, in the the mysteries of sanctity and of devilry alike. Thus the classic investigations of the Highgate case by Sean Manchester are of perennial interest and indeed highlight that age-old battle in which the soul of man is ever poised, with the Powers of Darkness on one side vying for empery in their unfathomable malice, on the other the imperishable Powers of Light striving to save and preserve us against the insidious wiles of the Arch-Fiend who as the scriptures warn us is is ever 'seeking for whom he may devour'.
So it is certainly a privelage indeed to be permitted to make some little contribution amid the esteemed company on this forum.
As to the hypothetical point about the blood of the Vampire which I made, this concurs exactly with the points you very cogently advanced about the demonic seductions of the Undead. The Vampire, as a minion of Satan, seems to offer immortal life - but this is a pernicious illusion, for the vampiric state in truth has nothing of Life about it - it is a monstrous travesty of Life, rather a ravening agony of unassuagable hunger without relief or respite, an utter alienation from God's holy mercy which can only ever be experienced as complete suffering, of being wracked in the throes of hellish torment. This, rather than 'immortal life' is what the Vampire grants to its chosen victims.
The demonic agencies often delight in parody of the mysteries of holiness and of God's infinite mercy and gift of redemption through Our Lord. The loathsome nightly resurrection of the vampire from the tomb is a noisome mockery of the resurrection of Our Lord Jesus Christ. The vampiric glutting on warm streams of living blood is a nauseous distortion and echo of the Sacrament of the True Vine, the precious Blood of the Lamb by which we are freed from sin. The Blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ through which we are granted Life Eternal is sickeningly travestied in the infernal mystery of the Blood of the Vampire through which the soul is doomed to an eternity of nocturnal wandering in the twilit realm of unearthly anguish. Satan is rightly called the Prince of Lies for his greatest weapons are dissimulation and subtle delusion by which the soul of man is seduced and ensnared. The allurement of the Vampire, as you point out, is a very deadly illusion and perhaps this is what such an eldritch occurence as the Highgate case still has to teach us today.
My good regards to all
Baron V
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Post by Westny on Apr 28, 2005 18:36:10 GMT -5
Dear Baron:
Thank goodness there are folks like you that can still spin a yarn or make a point using such wonderfully lush and descriptive prose. As a lawyer I live my life among words, but the things I write and read are prosaic and arid indeed compared to the marvel of rhetoric you make of each post. Your writing is a bit like a colorful paisley when compared to the grey pin striped world I inhabit, and extremely refreshing. I still suspect that you are an extremely talented young man seeking diversion and exploring the use of your talents in an out of the way corner of the internet. Nevermind. I will look forward to each posting you make if only for the sheer pleasure of reading your writing. (Your ideas and erudition are also impressive). So, thanks for making life and this board a bit more interesting! And, by the way, I also agree with everything in your last post.
Cordially,
Westny
P.S.-Could it be that there is a bit of Irish in your background?
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Post by Westny on Apr 29, 2005 9:31:20 GMT -5
Dear Baron:
A follow-up: I'm still curious to find whether you have a source or cite for the proposition that a vampire can be reconstituted after dissolution (other than Hollywood).
Cordially,
Westny
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Post by Memphremagog on Apr 29, 2005 17:37:25 GMT -5
My Word have I been absent too long from my inquiries!? Now gentlemen, please get along!
It is obvious that the Baron is a product of the books that he reads with authors being possibly the great Poe and Lovecraft, Shelley and Keats, and so on. I admire him for it and encourage him to not knuckle under to society's preconceived ideas of proper deportment in person and elocution.
As to the vampire's blood being a likely source of woe to whomever may have a singular solitary dehydrated drop of it I have no doubt. Perhaps the demonic entity that once inhabited the now dissolved carcass still is able to resuscitate itself by tinkering with the blood. I believe the blood along with the filthy cadaver must all be utterly burned to nothing but ash, that is to the original chemical elements and compounds that originally constituted it, minus of course the source of all life on earth, water. All the greater is the necessity of spreading the ashes to the four winds so as to avoid easy collection of the dehydrated and cremated remains in an attempt to bring it back to life. Personally I doubt it is possible but with the stygian realm of hatred against God and His Son one should never leave anything to chance.
The blood of the vampire must be the blood of the original unfortunate who became undead mixed with the blood of all those other victims, human and otherwise. I hesitate to speculate on the DNA of the vampire as it must be thoroughly mixed with that of perhaps hundreds of victims, again human and otherwise.
I understand that Aleister Crowley raised a vampire in his necromantic duel with the masters of the Order of the Golden Dawn. How he did this I have never read
but it undoubtedly involved diabolism.
Memphremagog.
In te Domine speravi.
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Post by Westny on Apr 30, 2005 13:14:25 GMT -5
Dear Memph:
Do not mistake my suspiciousness for enmity. I am, by disposition and profession, a suspicious person. However, I am (even when suspicious) not always as cranky as I was with Edwardx--he was a special case. Overall, I am delighted by the Baron's posts, both in terms of style and content. So, you need not worry that we are at odds with each other.
As to the rest of my post, I think you have confirmed the point that I was trying to make: the idea of reconstituting a dissolved vampire has no basis and/or confirmation in terms of actual events or legends in the historical record. At best it is a theoretical possibility. This does not mean that it could not be done, but that at this point there is no record (of whatever level of credibility) of such a thing being done set forth in the usual sources (e.g., Summers). (I discount the bragging of occultists like Crowley in consideration of the source).
I do not discount the powers of demonic agencies; however, consider the difficulties if the human soul is also involved in the transaction. It seems to me to be one thing to posit the unholy preservation of the body/soul union following death in the vampire. It seems quite another to assume that the soul could be drawn back to its reconstituted body after it has assumed its place in Hades. This smacks too much of the real resurrection made possible only by the divine agency. Perhaps it could be said that the body in this circumstance is merely one of the chambers of Hell where the d**ned soul could be condemned to stay. Still, it does seem a bit implausible to me.
Mind, this does not mean that I discount the possibility of great mischief being caused by, or done through, the blood of a vampire. I am just not sure the reconstitution of the vampire is possible via this medium.
Cordially,
Westny
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